Isabelle Wenzel welcomes me from her home in Wuppertal, Germany. We meet on Zoom, and I finally see her face: she is usually upside down and has her face hidden in the poses she takes for her photographs. There are two interesting artworks behind her. I wonder who is the artist behind the impressive art pieces on the wall.

Good morning, Isabelle. You are a multifaceted artist who brings together dance, performance, sculpture and photography. What was the educational path that led you to this creative process?

I would say that mainly it has to do with my background, because before deciding to do Fine Art and Photography, I studied as an acrobat. My mother was a theatre dancer and my father has always been a sporty man. From a very young age I had this dream to become an acrobat and work in a circus. So my parents looked for someone who could train me and found this circus school with a Russian acrobat who trained me for quite some years. I was 6 years old when I started and 14 years old when I stopped performing. When my parents had to move to Munich for work, we moved from the very West of Germany to the South of Germany. There I started training regularly, partly on my own, partly with another acrobat that was there during the winter break. Having him as a trainer, seeing how hard it was for him to juggle training and his family, how lonely he seemed sometimes, I realised how tough it was and started to doubt that career. I was 14 years old at that time, so I started to try fun sports instead.

Fun sports like what?

Every kind of fun sport, but I ended up doing skateboarding and became a professional skateboarder, competing in the World Cup and so on until I smashed my knee when I was around 20 years old. My knee was really badly injured and I needed a couple of surgeries, so it was immediately clear that I had to wait a long time before I could start training again. I was still young and I thought I could do something else in the meantime. So, as my family moved back to the West, I applied to the Beloften University of Sciences, thinking I could study Design. I showed them my portfolio, and they advised me to do Photography instead since some of my photographs really impressed them: “You have a good eye” they told me. I felt I could do it and started studying photography. Because of my background, of course, all I was interested in was photographing people and bodies. At the beginning of my studies I photographed a lot of people I knew, and some people I didn’t know. I was very interested in nudes, but I recognised that there was always something I felt was not quite right. And that was the moment I thought “Ok, I have a pretty clear idea in mind of the image I want to create”. Yet I was always kind of sure that my image didn’t match the image that the person wanted of him or herself. I felt as if I was betraying these people, because I was projecting my image on their body and asking for something that they maybe didn’t like.

Like you were using them.

Yes, exactly. This power game in photography is a very classical idea, in which you as the photographer have to direct the model. It is an idea that I don’t like. You are the photographer, you are in charge, you tell the model what to do; the model has nothing to say about that and he/she just does what you command. I thought “this is not nice”, you know. So, I acknowledged this and started to photograph just myself.

When did it happen? How did you discover you like to pose for yourself?

At the beginning I was not really aware of it, from time to time I was just taking self-portraits and I liked them a lot. So I carried on, but I was always doubting what it really meant: “What is it now? Is it a narcissistic act?”. I was very young, still with a very fit body and wondering if I just liked to look at myself. Then I started to recognise that I was not the type of photographer who works for brands and takes commissioned jobs. So I decided to go to Amsterdam and study Fine Arts at the Gerrit Rietveld Academie. I was in the Photography Department, but since it was a Fine Art school, the view on photography was very different from what I knew so far. I think it all started there actually because of my teachers. They were not really interested in a beautiful image, but more in “Who are you? What is your background? What is your passion?”. In my case, movement was my passion, it became obvious. At that time, I was photographing myself and a lot of friends who were comfortable with the images I captured of them. One of my teachers used to tell me: “I don’t know, there is something different with your self-portraits, I can’t tell why but they have something special”.

He saw something special in the pictures you took of yourself, compared to the ones of your friends, correct? I mean, in these pictures he was able to distinguish your personal process.

Yes, exactly. And I think at that time I foresaw I was using the body like a sculpture, not focusing on the person behind it, but more on formulating something with the body. I was still thinking a lot about this “power position” and how I was dealing with it. Just after I graduated, I decided to stop photographing other people. I always thought that other artists just go to their studio, take their paint out, and start working. And I was annoyed. Why couldn’t I do that? Acknowledging all this made me feel more like an artist than a photographer and then I photographed only myself for about ten years, until I realised: “I am now always by myself, alone. I need some other people to come back into my life”.

And what did you do? How did you change course?

All thanks to a fashion shoot. I was out to shoot an editorial, I think it was one of the first editorials I did, and I was also not sure about my position as an artist. What does it mean to use my body, my artistic language now for fashion? I was quite doubtful about it at the beginning, but then I thought I could maybe benefit from this, in a way. I could ask dancers, for example, to do what I do in front of the camera. Moreover, not being before the lens, put me more in charge while directing people that were professionally trained to use their body as a shape to model. I found out that this was a perfect match: meeting other people who have my same understanding of the body as a form or material to express your ideas. And since then, I just started to mix it up, but 90% is still me; 10% is other people.

I found it interesting what you said about “power”. The power of people (towards other people), the power of photography, the power of taking images, the power of directing someone else. You said at a certain point that you decided to use it for your self-portraits, choosing to direct yourself for over ten years. It was a period of great experimentation, because you had to challenge yourself as an artist, and also challenge yourself physically to create your sculptures. When did you become aware of the power of your physical performance and of your gaze?

When I realised that it’s not actually the camera or the photographer who is in charge. I tried to turn it around and say that the one who is in charge is the person in front of the camera, because from there you can control the image you are giving. I believe that nowadays, especially with social media, everybody knows this. There are so many people who are so well trained in how they want to look in front of the camera. And I think we have actually become pretty used to that, but when I started with my artistic practice, social media still did not exist. I often think about this quote by Roland Barthes, where he said that the strange thing about photography is that you turn something into an image before the image has been taken. I realised, “this is really a very interesting game. On one hand I am the photographer, the one who is looking, and on the other hand I am also the one who is in front of the camera, giving my view to others”. While I am working I am alone, it is just me and the camera. But I know there will be an audience, so I also have that in mind. You know that your images will be published and thus a very private moment becomes a public moment. Sometimes I forget that thousands of people will see it.

That is the point: the power of looking at something and taking an image, and once the image exists it belongs to the world.

I have to admit that not looking at the camera while working is also giving the power, or the control, away. My process is also so much about trial-and-error, I often have no idea of what I am doing. I am pressing the shutter, running in front of the camera, doing something, then I look at the screen, and react to it. It is about being in charge of power, but also not. It’s always something in between, let’s say.

You are in control, but not completely. Also given the fact that you use the space of time provided by the camera’s self-timer to create your sculptures, to become your piece of art…what the camera takes then is something unexpected. Are the human sculptures you create a criticism of the objectification of the female body? Is there something critical towards the way the body is represented?

Certainly, but as an artist I am not really someone who is criticising in the sense of “look, there is something wrong”. I rather acknowledge certain conceptions in our way, as a society, to look at bodies, at genders, and especially at female bodies in the media. For me, it is an opportunity to find a way to deal with that because I am not a very feminine type of person. I also felt the urge to do something very grotesque in order to understand these social structures, this gender role game and what gender is itself. In some projects I clearly speak about the female body, how it is looked at and how it used to be seen as an object. I try to turn the female body into a table or a chair or whatever, highlighting the absurdity of the process. In other projects, I purely try to speak about the human body, about gravity, and the shape of the body, which is what distinguishes you from other people. Moreover, there is also an attempt to recognise the limitation of what you can do as a female artist, because as soon as you do something with your body, it’s immediately about the female body, but not about the human body in general. This field of work is something where I am still trying to find a balance. In some projects, I was completely interested in the female form, but in general, I am more interested in our physical being as humans in the world. That’s quite a strong proposition for a female artist, you are only a woman, you know.

I find this way of looking at the body very fascinating because in many photographs your head disappears completely, sometimes in a bucket or something like that. Talking about gravity, I have asked myself “How could she keep that kind of position, disappearing completely?”. There is a perfect balance but also an incredible sense of danger. And it is not only about the magic of the camera, I am very surprised about your physical capabilities. Your work seems to also determine your life routine. Do you continue training everyday?

Well, I would love to have more time for training, but since I am quite busy with editing and communication and everything else, I am not able to do it everyday.

Do you work alone or is there someone who works with you?

At one point it all became a lot, especially when fashion started to come into my life. The productions and exhibitions became more and more, it was not possible to do this alone anymore. I am in a very lucky situation because my partner Michel started to completely commit to my projects. He completely knows my work, since my first studies. We have been together for over twenty years.

Well, it sounds really romantic!

Yes, it is. He is my first love. And my last! In fashion, you have to be very fast. If you shoot editorials, you have to shoot like 17 looks a day, and doing that only relying on myself was kind of impossible. That’s when my partner came in. I said “let’s do the thing I am always doing, and you just click the camera”. And through this process I realised I am not only an artist and a photographer, I can also be a performer, and give the control completely away, by saying “you take the photos, I perform the image”. Then, I edit them later and this is still the part I am completely doing alone because I really need this process. I suddenly also became a movement director. I am standing next to my partner and I am talking all the time to the person in front of the camera, and sometimes I even show with my body what they [the models] should do. I don’t know what it is but I often think my body is funnier than other bodies. Maybe it has to do with my acrobatic background. I adore Buster Keaton, he is a big hero of mine. I think my training is really performing in front of the camera, trying to photograph at least 2 to 3 times a week. After photographing, I always feel so good, as if I have done yoga all day long. I am so into my body and I am so chilled. It feels very healthy.

You look really healthy, indeed. You said you work a lot in fashion, you have been commissioned works for magazines and editorials or also campaigns?

At the beginning, I didn’t know anything about fashion and I still would say I don’t know much about fashion. However, I can say that the fashion industry is very interested in the artistic approach. They give me a lot of freedom to do my thing. I was struggling at the beginning, but now I recognize these two fields of creativity can benefit from each other. For me, it is such an interesting process because when I first see a garment or a dress in the lookbook, I can never imagine how it would look in the picture. I really need to wear it and to see how you can move in it and how this thing moves with you. I think that is very useful for my creativity, because I have to work a lot with improvisation. It’s like a game, you get this thing and you try to see how you can make it move. Everything about movement becomes still.

You live in Wuppertal, the homeland of Pina Bausch. Your mother was a dancer, too. Do you think this has influenced you as a performer and an artist?

Yes, my mother was a dancer as well, and from a very early age she took me to see Pina Bausch pieces, so I knew her pieces. I very much felt connected to the dancing, and that only began in the last 5 or 6 years. Before I was not aware of it, but now of course I see the connections. What I see is the same mindset, when I meet dancers – my partner and I have a lot of friends that are dancers and we love working with dancers – I feel we share the same understanding of how to be in the world, how to treat our body and how to express ourselves. It was very refreshing for me to recognise that there are people that think in the same way as me, because in the Fine Art world you meet people who also have the same mindset but not necessarily the same work method. While with dancers, we walk the same paths to achieve results. The body is always at the core.

Regarding the “unawareness” you mentioned, there is always something about childhood that, at a certain time, can come out, as an ancient memory.

It is something you embody, it is within you and you are not aware of it.

What about your current or next exhibition? Are you working on any projects?

There is a virtual exhibition going on called Ansitzen and weitblicken at Stadtsparkasse Wuppertal, one of the main German banks. There are some other things I can’t talk about now. One exhibition will be in Malta (date and place to be confirmed), another in London, and there is a show opening on the 7th of June in Milan, curated by C41 at BIM, a space in a former office building. For the opening I am planning to do a performance.

Buster Keaton aside, are there other artists you like?

Yes, of course, there are a lot. One of them is Tino Sehgal, a great artist, if you like performances he is someone you have to see and to experience. I also like Gaga dance, a new type of dance from an Israeli choreographer. If you go to a Gaga class you don’t have a mirror, as you normally would do in a dance class. Everything is about the uniqueness of your body and which movements are natural to you, to each person, and it is not for professional dancers but for everybody. I did a couple of workshops and I found this technique very liberating. Gaga dance is more about which form is right for your body and I think this is how I am working, I just try to find ways to express my body.

Who is the author of the artworks on the wall behind you?

My children, my son is 5 years old and my daughter is 10 years old. She is very creative. She said she wants to become a fashion designer, but also a performer.

PHOTO CREDIT

AII images: courtesy lsabelle Wenzel © VG Bild-Kunst, Bonn 2023

Tiger, 2022
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition of 5 plus 2AP

Rosie and me 1, 2022
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition 5 plus 2AP

Point of view 1, 2023
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition 5 plus 2AP

Bending 2, 2020
Matt Fine Art Print 230g 90x120cm Edition of 5 plus 2AP

Gone, 2021
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition 5 plus 2AP

Chiara 2, 2022
Matt Fine Art Print 230g, Edition of 5 plus 2AP 90x120cm

Anna 1, 2022
Edition of 5 plus 2AP 90x120cm Matt Fine Art Print 230g

1R, 2022
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition 5 plus 2AP

Painting 1.6, 2016
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition of 5 plus 2AP

Marta 1, 2020
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition 5 plus 2AP

Replica 2.3, 2016
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Edition of 20 Plus 2AP

Wall 1, 2023
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition 5 plus 2AP

H1, 2019
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition 5 plus 2A

Automatic 1, 2022
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition 5 plus 2AP

Hide2, 2020
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition of 5 plus 2AP

M2, 2021
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×60 cm Edition 5 plus 2AP

Fall, 2022
Matt Fine Art Print 230g Framed 40×50 cm Edition of 5 plus 2AP